I'm so glad you used MHA as this example! I love MHA precisely because of the variety of characters and how they contrast and balance each other out. I actually really like Midoriya as a protagonist. I think he's likeable because he puts in the work to become a hero-- it's not like he inherits One For All and then immediately becomes the best hero who saves the day all by himself everytime. He needs the other characters to learn and grow (especially those that act as foils) and I love how integral they all are to his journey... he couldn't do it without them. I think Bakugo is the most powerful foil for Midoriya: one wins to save, and the other saves to win. They have totally different approaches and attitudes, but they lead to the same overall goal.
I also love how it's a running joke that Midoriya cries all the time, but it's totally part of his charm, because it shows he never takes what he's been given for granted and he has such boundless compassion, even for his enemy, Shigaraki.
Having said that, it's the cast of other heroes and villains, and their dynamics, that keep me coming back to the story. I live for the character dynamics in a story (probably even more than a decent plot) and having characters who are foils to each other can be a big part of making those dynamics compelling to read. Thanks for the food for thought! I always appreciate your prompts at the end of a post for both readers and writers.
"One wins to save, and the other saves to win." I love that so much. Such a great way to look at their relationship. I completely agree, him and Bakugo are such a compelling pair, and I also think that, by proximity, them being so interesting makes everyone else in their orbit more interesting too. Namely in how they fit into this dynamic.
Good call with Midoriya crying too. If you're going to have a protagonist that cries that much, you better get out in front of it and make light of it. It makes me think of Takemichi from Tokyo Revengers. Goodness me, that guy cried so much. I don't recall if they made similar jokes about him though. I very often see Takemichi named as one of the most unbearable protagonists in manga, so I'm guessing not.
I think that you hit the nail on the head with what makes Midoriya so compelling at his core -- he puts the work in. I went down a rabbit hole not long ago, I actually think I cited Mashle as the reference point for an article about this on MangaCraft, but trying to find protagonists who aren't overpowered, supercharged or in some way overwhelmingly powerful. I always compare Asta, from Black Clover, with Midoriya because they have such similar circumstances, but Asta is much more brash and tenacious... not for everyone. If anything he's like Bakugo in that sense. But Midoriya is so good-natured despite it all. He really is a great study for anyone trying to create a compelling protagonist.
I'm glad the prompts at the end are being used! I was contemplating getting rid of them because I didn't think anyone was using them, so it's good to know. I'll keep them!
Thanks as always for the thoughtful responses. Every time you comment it kicks more things lose in my mind and helps me put more pieces together!
ROY!!!! I love this so much. He is such an amazing character and I love the different FOIL examples. Velma and Daphne. You are so skilled and have such a good eye for Manga.
Good post! Feels like you're edging towards the basic definition of a story, which to me is: protagonist who believes in a theme faces antagonist who believes the anti-theme (e.g. "money rules the world" vs "money does rule the world - therefore one should steal as much as possible").
Supporting characters exist to bring conflict & challenge the protagonist to transform via
* a display of a different worldview
* challenging the protagonist’s lack of faith in themselves
* a display of what not to do
* setting a high bar the protagonist aspires to
Via the story, protagonist learns a nuanced view between theme and anti-theme (e.g. "money *seems* to rule the world, but actually relationships between people are more important) -- and uses that knowledge to defeat the antagonist.
Thanks for reading! For sure, it definitely hits all the traditional story beats. Which actually fed more into my fascination as to why I enjoyed it so much and why the fact that it did feel so traditional didn't bother me.
And that circles back to the answer -- I think they do character contrasts -- foils -- so much better, which is the piece that rises above and makes the story stand out more than it otherwise would.
"Seeds of good overcome mountains of evil." Great analysis here! Foil Foil Toil and Trouble! I enjoyed the connections to LOTR and HP. Thanks for writing!
Thank you for reading! Characters are all about them foils! I'm glad my connections to LOTR and HP work. I try to reference everything to those two or Star Wars because I figure everyone knows them lol. Maybe I'll reference Flash Gordon one of these days too...
That. Would. Be. Stellar! Here is some encouragement to go after FG foils:
Princess Aura "Look! Water is leaking from her eyes."
Prince Baron...
... we all need to hear more about how Arboria and The Battle for Endor - speak to one another (esp. the Ewok tree walkways resonating with 'Return of the Jedi')
“The wood beast lies somewhere in the stump. Choose your passage.”
Dr. Zarkov too: how he saves his memory from being erased by reciting Shakespeare, the Talmud, the formulas of Einstein, even a song from The Beatles.
“It Armored me girl, they couldn’t wipe those things away. You can’t beat the human spirit!”
HA! I actually wonder if Zarkov and Flash are foils. Zarkov is so scientific and meticulous, and Flash is so laissez-fair and nonchalant. I was going to say the obvious one is Ming and Flash, but I don't necessarily think that's true. It's hard to be a foil when you're as one-dimensional as Ming is. Though I guess Sauron fits the same role.
If nothing else, Flash is certainly not your typical hero. He chose none of this, so maybe that makes him foil with Ming. Ming is an intentional villain, horrible to everyone. Flash is an unintentional hero, tries to be kind to everyone.
See, you did this, you gave the prompts and I couldn't help myself lol.
I am so happy to be dwelling here in these lines of your thinking! The story does pull one into it, lol, and I do agree with you about both foils ~ esp. Zarkov ~ such good points you make!
Sauron and Ming are so far from virtue; while Flash as a human is virtuous...and Frodo, Bilbo, Merry, Pippin, Sam, Gandalf are superhuman as far as virtuosity goes...
This is one of your best manga analysis to date, but your wife stole the show with Roy 🙏
Thanks so much! And yeah, she often does steal the show.
I'm so glad you used MHA as this example! I love MHA precisely because of the variety of characters and how they contrast and balance each other out. I actually really like Midoriya as a protagonist. I think he's likeable because he puts in the work to become a hero-- it's not like he inherits One For All and then immediately becomes the best hero who saves the day all by himself everytime. He needs the other characters to learn and grow (especially those that act as foils) and I love how integral they all are to his journey... he couldn't do it without them. I think Bakugo is the most powerful foil for Midoriya: one wins to save, and the other saves to win. They have totally different approaches and attitudes, but they lead to the same overall goal.
I also love how it's a running joke that Midoriya cries all the time, but it's totally part of his charm, because it shows he never takes what he's been given for granted and he has such boundless compassion, even for his enemy, Shigaraki.
Having said that, it's the cast of other heroes and villains, and their dynamics, that keep me coming back to the story. I live for the character dynamics in a story (probably even more than a decent plot) and having characters who are foils to each other can be a big part of making those dynamics compelling to read. Thanks for the food for thought! I always appreciate your prompts at the end of a post for both readers and writers.
"One wins to save, and the other saves to win." I love that so much. Such a great way to look at their relationship. I completely agree, him and Bakugo are such a compelling pair, and I also think that, by proximity, them being so interesting makes everyone else in their orbit more interesting too. Namely in how they fit into this dynamic.
Good call with Midoriya crying too. If you're going to have a protagonist that cries that much, you better get out in front of it and make light of it. It makes me think of Takemichi from Tokyo Revengers. Goodness me, that guy cried so much. I don't recall if they made similar jokes about him though. I very often see Takemichi named as one of the most unbearable protagonists in manga, so I'm guessing not.
I think that you hit the nail on the head with what makes Midoriya so compelling at his core -- he puts the work in. I went down a rabbit hole not long ago, I actually think I cited Mashle as the reference point for an article about this on MangaCraft, but trying to find protagonists who aren't overpowered, supercharged or in some way overwhelmingly powerful. I always compare Asta, from Black Clover, with Midoriya because they have such similar circumstances, but Asta is much more brash and tenacious... not for everyone. If anything he's like Bakugo in that sense. But Midoriya is so good-natured despite it all. He really is a great study for anyone trying to create a compelling protagonist.
I'm glad the prompts at the end are being used! I was contemplating getting rid of them because I didn't think anyone was using them, so it's good to know. I'll keep them!
Thanks as always for the thoughtful responses. Every time you comment it kicks more things lose in my mind and helps me put more pieces together!
ROY!!!! I love this so much. He is such an amazing character and I love the different FOIL examples. Velma and Daphne. You are so skilled and have such a good eye for Manga.
Thank you so much! Roy is the best, I’m glad you agree.
Good post! Feels like you're edging towards the basic definition of a story, which to me is: protagonist who believes in a theme faces antagonist who believes the anti-theme (e.g. "money rules the world" vs "money does rule the world - therefore one should steal as much as possible").
Supporting characters exist to bring conflict & challenge the protagonist to transform via
* a display of a different worldview
* challenging the protagonist’s lack of faith in themselves
* a display of what not to do
* setting a high bar the protagonist aspires to
Via the story, protagonist learns a nuanced view between theme and anti-theme (e.g. "money *seems* to rule the world, but actually relationships between people are more important) -- and uses that knowledge to defeat the antagonist.
Thanks for reading! For sure, it definitely hits all the traditional story beats. Which actually fed more into my fascination as to why I enjoyed it so much and why the fact that it did feel so traditional didn't bother me.
And that circles back to the answer -- I think they do character contrasts -- foils -- so much better, which is the piece that rises above and makes the story stand out more than it otherwise would.
"Seeds of good overcome mountains of evil." Great analysis here! Foil Foil Toil and Trouble! I enjoyed the connections to LOTR and HP. Thanks for writing!
Thank you for reading! Characters are all about them foils! I'm glad my connections to LOTR and HP work. I try to reference everything to those two or Star Wars because I figure everyone knows them lol. Maybe I'll reference Flash Gordon one of these days too...
That. Would. Be. Stellar! Here is some encouragement to go after FG foils:
Princess Aura "Look! Water is leaking from her eyes."
Prince Baron...
... we all need to hear more about how Arboria and The Battle for Endor - speak to one another (esp. the Ewok tree walkways resonating with 'Return of the Jedi')
“The wood beast lies somewhere in the stump. Choose your passage.”
Dr. Zarkov too: how he saves his memory from being erased by reciting Shakespeare, the Talmud, the formulas of Einstein, even a song from The Beatles.
“It Armored me girl, they couldn’t wipe those things away. You can’t beat the human spirit!”
~*~
“You sure these are the rules?”
“They’ve just been changed.”
HA! I actually wonder if Zarkov and Flash are foils. Zarkov is so scientific and meticulous, and Flash is so laissez-fair and nonchalant. I was going to say the obvious one is Ming and Flash, but I don't necessarily think that's true. It's hard to be a foil when you're as one-dimensional as Ming is. Though I guess Sauron fits the same role.
If nothing else, Flash is certainly not your typical hero. He chose none of this, so maybe that makes him foil with Ming. Ming is an intentional villain, horrible to everyone. Flash is an unintentional hero, tries to be kind to everyone.
See, you did this, you gave the prompts and I couldn't help myself lol.
I am so happy to be dwelling here in these lines of your thinking! The story does pull one into it, lol, and I do agree with you about both foils ~ esp. Zarkov ~ such good points you make!
Sauron and Ming are so far from virtue; while Flash as a human is virtuous...and Frodo, Bilbo, Merry, Pippin, Sam, Gandalf are superhuman as far as virtuosity goes...